RON SUSKIND, AUTHOR, "THE WAY OF THE WORLD"
BLITZER: Was it a mistake to actually release the Justice Department documents authorizing these enhanced interrogation techniques?
SUSKIND: The evidence clearly shows it wasn't. I mean, mostly people knew what was in those documents in terms of their basic nature. Beyond that, these were never techniques the CIA used until 9/11 and have never shown any worth. So this is not a sources and methods issue where you're dealing with real sources and methods that the CIA uses to get espionage...
BLITZER: The former CIA director only yesterday, General Hayden, said, "The facts of the case are that the these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work." That's what he said yesterday.
SUSKIND: The evidence that has come out and the evidence that I think will come out in the coming months shows that these techniques were not meaningfully successful, successful in terms of a bid or piece that they might have gotten through more traditional methods. But that issue of, was this something that worked that now we have abandoned really doesn't hold water. BLITZER: Because when I spoke to the vice president, Dick Cheney, only a few months ago, he said Americans are effectively -- he said Americans are alive right now because these techniques were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah.
SUSKIND: I think that's Cheney doing his own legacy project. The evidence, again and again, shows that that's not the case, that plots were not foiled based on what was gained from these interrogation techniques.
BLITZER: We know that the current chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Dianne Feinstein of California, she's going to have an investigation now. They're going to go back and see which techniques worked and which techniques didn't work. So we'll get the final result, presumably, from the Senate Intelligence Committee down the road.
SUSKIND: Well, you know, there's more that's going to come out. We have transparency now, we'll have more of it. Accountability is going to be much more difficult.
Frankly, the president and the vice president were involved directly in the interrogation issues, were pushing them forward. They're not to be prosecuted as far as I see. And so what we're now dealing with is the president saying, look, we have this stuff out, it hurts like hell, CIA, but I'm here behind you.
BLITZER: You're an authority on all of this because you've written extensively about it. When you read the documents that were actually released last week, that the president of the United States authorized the declassification of these top-secret Justice Department memos, what did you learn?
SUSKIND: Well, I didn't learn much that was new, but it's painful to read. It's painful to think of these things happening under the stars and stripes...
BLITZER: Did you learn anything new?
SUSKIND: Well, you know, some of the techniques, how they were used, some of the ways they lined them up in a progression to get what they thought would be a value. Ultimately, though, what you're seeing here are many things that were tried over the objections of many, including the FBI, who has long experience here as to what works, and they did not yield the kinds of things that kept...
BLITZER: You saw and listened to the president and his remarks over at CIA headquarters just now. He seemed to be pretty much, when addressing this sensitive subject, on the defensive.
SUSKIND: Well, you know, look, the president understands this is one tough audience at CIA right now. They're very dispirited. These are people who make great sacrifices, mind you. Of course, CIA does deception to get the truth, that's their business. But right now people are saying, should I be risking my life, in many case, to maybe some day be caught in a whipsaw like this that's largely political in terms of what a political leader ordered us to do that now we'll be held accountable for?
Obama is saying to them we need an intelligence service not only as good, but better than it's been for the modern age. And I want to support you.
BLITZER: Because even Leon Panetta, the new CIA director, he recommended against releasing these documents.
SUSKIND: Well, you know, Obama -- he did recommend against it, and I think Obama said, look, I'm going to split the middle here. We have got to at least show what happened, but I'm not going to cross the line to push for prosecutions. And without Obama's support, we're not probably going to get anything that looks like jurisprudence here.
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